Ok, now I understand why this healh care plan is going to be so expensive. 12 million foriegn aliens are going to get free coverage, yes, that makes sense. If we buy some additional printing presses the U.S. Mint can run the ones that we already have and the new ones faster, and we can print enough money to cover everyone with health insurance in both North and South America. Why not? It’s a great idea. Talk about good international relations!
I guess not guarding the borders well will now be a whole lot more expensive than it used to be. For every undocumented alien who gets into the U.S., the health care cost will just keep on going up. I have to say that if I were thinking about moving back to the U.S. given the proposed coverage I would do it for that alone.
It used to be that being a citizen of the U.S. meant something, but I guess that now it does not. I can hardly wait to hear what happens when they turn away veterans and people who are paying massive taxes because the services are being soaked up by those who are here illegally. That should turn out to be an interesting sight.
I don’t know about you, but I think this is a terrible proposal that has been added to the plan. Health care coverage was never supposed to be about taking care of everyone, it was about taking care of U.S. citizens who could not afford coverage. If we do not know who is a citizen, that is a failure that must be fixed before we move forward.
Popularity: 7% [?]
YOU CANNOT SEPARATE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION FROM ANY POTENTIAL HEALTH CARE AGENDA
The meat and potatoes of this health care and illegal immigration occupation crisis is saving money, and a quality of care that everybody can participate in? The amount of cold hard cash spent on doctors, hospitals and a subsidiary of middle men goes into the trillions of dollars annually. Health care is a major part of the GMP, because our system of health care contains very little preventative medicine and–EVERYTHING–to do with keeping the status quo well furnished with dollars. The AMA has ruled the roost since the 1920’s and allowed very little alternative medicine to surface amongst the now multi billion dollar industry such as Cancer. A good example is the Rife machine that was heralded by many doctors in the 1930’s, but because of its was a new innovation to combat disease it disappeared, with its inventor ostracized and black listed by the medical Federation. The medical profession suddenly comes to the realization that perhaps this new medical tool could cut down the patient line at their office. Instead of the research being immediately picked up by the AMA and studied, it was consumed in ugly controversy and vanished from public view. Illegal Immigration cannot be separated from the health care dilemma, because of the giant expenditure placed on the back of taxpayers. This will be become more eye-opening within my summary, further down the pages.
Not having been really sick in the United States, I dread entering a hospital here for serious surgery. Most of my experience is in England and Australia over my early years. Television, radio and the newspapers are already building up a crescendo of negative ads, about the quality of care in Canada, Britain and other industrialized nations, because the special interest lobby doesn’t want their lucrative world shaken. So now I want to clear up the radical propaganda and just downright lies enforced by millions of dollars spent to frighten the population, specially aimed at the senior citizen. Both countries Britain and Australia are a fine example of health care distribution. With England, my place of birth, the National health Service (NHS) was created in 1948 It is a service which offers free access to medical care to the entire population as a right of citizenship, regardless of the capacity to pay. It is a service which recognizes only one principle for allocating resources to individual patients that of want as defined by the professional providers of health care. It is a service, furthermore, which is overwhelmingly, financed out of general taxation, and which is thus a dominant instrument for redistributing money from the working population to the sick and to the senior citizens. Until the 1950 it worked exceedingly well, until the importation of commonwealth workers to drive London buses and run the British Railway transportation.
In 1956, London Transport began to recruit directly from the isle of Barbados, inviting men and women to become bus conductors, underground staff and canteen assistants. London Transport recruited in Barbados until 1970 and extended the program to Jamaica and Trinidad for a year in 1966. Britain agreed in principle to join the European Economic Community effective Jan. 1, 1973, original known to Brits as the Common Market. The “One Market” that was created in 1993 states that people, money, services, and trade can move freely within the European Union. Currently over 450 million EU citizens are provided with these special options. In spite of the restrictive immigration policies which have been in place since the 1970s in most Member States Of The European Union, large numbers of legal and illegal migrants have continued to come to the EU together with asylum-seekers and illegal labor. Taking advantage of individuals seeking an improved life, smuggling and skin trafficking networks have taken hold across the EU. It was the end to me of the generations of the old English Pounds, Shillings and pence currency and the introduction of decimal coinage. Good, wholesome health care came to a sudden halt, with the free movement of foreign labor by the globalist agenda, which then threatened the stability of the European common market. Read Blogger reports on the terrible mess Europe has brought upon its inhabitants, by allowing millions of foreign nationals into each nation. The future see’s the EU likely to explode in riots and discontent, with an harbinger of violence?
As a young man I remember getting the flue, and arriving at the local doctors office. Back in the 50’s, you could choose your physician and sit in the reception room, with perhaps 10 other sick patients. The nurse in charge sat at a desk and greeted new arrivals as they entered the office, which was in most cases a large, residential house. When the bell rung you was ushered into the doctors office, who was already looking at your medical record. After an examination, just like in the United States, the doctor wrote the prescription for medicine and you were on your way. If it turned out that your condition required further examination, you received a not from the doctor, with an appointment at the local hospital. But times have changed now and my distant relatives tell me that because of the continuous import of legal and illegal commonwealth and other countries masses. From what I understand, like never before England, Ireland and Scotland have become overwhelmed by immigrants. London specifically, is not the place that I once new as it has become jammed with traffic and unholy mess of spiraling crime, never before seen in the England.
The adverse American health care special interest lobby now has plenty of ammunition, to demonize the once great British National medical care services. Even my relatives agree that the system has rapidly deteriorated from what it was once? I participated in national pool, paid my National Insurance stamps as my employer did and I was always rewarded with decent medical care. On several occasions I ended up in the cottage hospital and their was never a cost applied to it, never a ream of paperwork. No doctor, no hospital or specialist ask me for my Social Security number, drivers license or if I was covered by a predatory for-profit insurer. Unlike America I never had to worry about a debt collector, or being summons to a bankruptcy court. Here, I know actual families who ended up under insured and have spent years fighting with insurance companies. The average American family can suddenly find themselves backed-up, with hospital and doctor bills at any time, even when since Moses they have been methodically paying premiums and co-pays and other extraction techniques adopted by the Insurance companies.
I certainly don’t agree with every new policy that is under consideration by the majority Democratic leadership, headed by President Obama. When I like hundreds of thousands of other honest immigrants wait for an employment visa, sometimes for years. The inspection process of biographical data, the FBI background investigation, the physical examination and the rest, doesn’t make the sincere immigrant very favorable to those who just literary slip past the US Border Patrol. To me it’s a complete outrage to all of us, who respect the Rule of American law and the omnipotent Constitution of the United States.
The majority of Naturalized citizens cherish, with great servility that we have been endowed with this great countries freedoms, protection and security. This is not conveyed to me by most of the politicians that we voted into office. Each one when taking the Oath of office, states with their hand on the great book, to protect the citizens of the United States from both enemies foreign and domestic. This hardly bares water, because they are continually genuflecting for all their worth, for campaign contributions, money and gifts and the potential of incumbents ideology of a long career in politics. They have a powerful money machine behind them–THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY–that have all the cards?
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (42 U.S.C. § 1395dd, EMTALA) is a United States Act of Congress passed in 1986. hospital and ambulance services must impart care to anyone needing emergency treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. The only problem with is, that the federal mandated law never pays the full amount to the institution, if any, so the hospital passes it on to other patients, the insurance company? You guessed it? The good, old trusting taxpayer who falls for the rhetoric every time? This is now the incredulous problem that surfaced in England and Europe as millions of foreign born has swarmed the shores of half a dozen governmental health care institutions. The main culprit, as here in the United States is the ominous attraction of companies, who identify cheap labor with high profits. Why give benefits like health care to illegal foreign workers, when the American taxpayer can be hit for higher taxes? It seems like that both political parties concur with this summary, because right now if–IF– a health care bill is passed with a government run health agency for the poor, low income–it also means the 20 million illegal immigrants squatting here. So really we are no better off. It just means higher taxes for the working class. It certainly does mean a small tax token for the wealthy amongst us? Of course the wealthiest amongst us are the businesses that hire cheap labor, and without any fear of contradiction, they will find a loophole? The mega industries have always found a way, not to pay very few taxes. Much of their ill-gotten gains are spirited into off-shore accounts, so the IRS in most cases cannot get to it, or even know about it.
Another federal mandate forced on the taxpayer through the court system was obviously In Plyer Vs. Brown case Texas law which withheld funds from local school districts for educating children not legally admitted into the United States and the authorization of these districts to deny these children enrollment, violated the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. So now California–the now SANCTUARY STATE– has been seriously damaged by the courts, because literary millions of foreign born children–ILLEGAL OR NOT–swallows up billions of dollars. The schools have become overcrowded, under funded and embarrassment to much of the country. The teachers are required to spend their precious time on the children of foreign nationals who cannot comprehend English. So the obvious outcome is American children are less educated, and have plummeted to the bottom of the performance chart. Going to pick up my relatives son in K-12, was like visiting a third world nation.
The blame must be slammed in the laps of the parasite businesses. They seem to think however illegally the workers are, they have a right to hire foreign labor for the workplace? Second are the all prevailing courts that have fashioned laws for minorities, and not for the American public as a whole? Chief Justice Burger was joined by Justice White, Justice Rehnquist,and Justice O’Connor in dissenting, saying that while it was regrettable that Congress had been lax in its enforcement of the country’s immigration laws, it was not the Court’s responsibility to make up for that laxity. So therefore they judged the law against the common good of the population, to the millions of illegal aliens who broke our laws. The American taxpayer is forced once again owing to the corruption and utter indifference, to their countryman from their side of the fence into ours. Yet another law sided with a foreign invasion force is the Birthright law, which should never have been conceded. The children born in the United States to illegal alien mothers are often referred to as “anchor babies. These children are U.S. citizens at birth, simply because they were born on U.S. soil. Any female who is pregnant and like thousands of other women who intentionally enter the United States illegally annually, knows that giving birth in the U.S. means her child will be an “anchor baby” and granted instant U.S. citizenship. For this women it means her child will qualify for a cornucopia of federal, state and local benefit programs.
They are called anchor babies because, as U.S. citizens, they become eligible to sponsor for legal immigration most of their kinship, including their illegal alien mothers, when they turn 21 years of age, thus becoming the U.S. “anchor” for an extended immigrant family. From the beginning the mother can Thousands of pregnant women who are about to deliver come to the United States each year from countries as far away as China and as near as Mexico so that they can give birth on U.S. soil. Some come legally as temporary visitors; others enter illegally. Once the baby is born, they get a U.S. birth certificate and passport for the child, and their future link to this country is recognized and irreversible. The answer lies in how American jurisprudence has interpreted the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.
The 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution as a part of the post Civil War reforms intended to address injustices to African Americans. It states that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States” and was crafted so that state governments could never deny citizenship to anyone born in the United States. However, when the amendment was authored, the United States had no immigration policy, and thus the drafters saw no need to state unequivocally, what they assumed was understood. The phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” was anticipated to exclude from automatic citizenship American-born persons whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. In the case of illegal aliens who are temporarily or unlawfully in the United States, because their indigenous country has a claim of allegiance to the child, the completeness of the allegiance to the United States is impaired and logically precludes automatic citizenship.
These Immigrants to the United States are far more likely to use welfare (programs such as Medicare/Medicaid or food stamps) than native-born American families, because they come here penniless. Nationwide, non-native households are 59% more likely to take advantage of a state or federal welfare program than a bona-fide household. Whether by intention or short sightedness of our government, no real numbers are available. The globalist and free open-border traders have seen to that, although our own government and the liberal press always offer the number of 13 million. But this estimation has been amply displayed in newspapers, for the last 7 years.
The need to curtail illegal immigration prompted Congress to enact the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986. The IRCA toughened criminal sanctions for employers who hired illegal aliens, denied illegal aliens federally funded welfare benefits, and legitimized some aliens through an amnesty program–EXCEPT THESE LAWS NEVER WERE ENFORCED? The real enigma lies in the wording of the 1986 law? The IRCA toughened–CRIMINAL SANCTIONS–for employers who hired illegal aliens, DENIED ILLEGAL ALIENS FEDERALLY FUNDED WELFARE BENEFITS. Neither the federal government, nor state county have denied most benefits to illegal immigrants. That is why one state–California–is involved in a monstrous budget deficit? That is why Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger refuses to sign any legislation for higher taxes, in a collapsing economy that was a financial icon for the whole of America. Bright lights are on at night in the Democratic-Liberal assembly building in Sacramento and have so far failed to pass any budget agreement. I wish them luck as they try to find relieve from the crushing pressure of $24.5 billion dollars, that they have imposed on themselves from the tax and spend politicians that infest the state capitol. City manager Andronovich demonstrated to the people of Los Angeles county, that $11 billion dollars went to underwrite the impoverished, considerable numbers being illegal alien families.
California has been overrun with millions of illegal entrants, as with Arizona and other border states. An the ingredients of federal law has been a breeding ground for entitlements that have been gravely compromised by pandering to illegal families. The federal government has control over immigration law for the United States. But by not addressing this abuse, fraud with the funds that state and local governments must provide to anchor babies amounts to a virtual tax on U.S. citizens to subsidize illegal aliens. By not closing this loophole, the federal government in effect rewards law-breakers and punishes those who have chosen to follow the rules and immigrate legally. Allowing illegal aliens to give birth to American citizens, in effect, makes citizenship a license for welfare.
It would be untrue to accuse just the Democrats for this, because all politicians have been involved in distracting–THE PEOPLE–from the real issues that cost them a lot of money. The population falls for these trickster’s every time, so they can hit you with either higher taxes or give huge tax reimbursements to their corporate comrades. Illegal immigration is a major depletion of every tax treasury, throughout this land. Giving any kind of AMNESTY will enhance the predictable–OVERPOPULATION. The complete neglect of our interstate highway system, tunnels and bridges is just the slow eroding of our infrastructure. In the near future the population growth will explode, to over another hundred million people. Look at it this way? it took from the time of the pilgrims, to our unsettled economic recession of today, to reach a population of 305 million? Within no more than 40 years we could reach an estimated population, according to the US census 435 million people. IT would be an unmentionable catastrophe to open the doors wide at the border, giving millions of illegal immigrant’s expressway to a path to citizenship. You must decide the future of future generations, because just my ranting will have very little influence on the power brokers in Washington. Call your Senator or Congressman and impress on the people you vote into office that you want an alternative to the predatory health care insurers. You want the right to choose?
That includes the Universal government run system that certainly isn’t any worse than the profit insurers we have now. That you also want your political representative to curtail any path to citizenship, but to enforce with rigid authority E-Verify, police right to arrest 287(g) enforcement of illegal aliens. Tell them you are a voter and convey to them, as you voted them into office as you can remove them. Learn more of the facts about the costs and fallacies spawned by special interest lobbyists and liberal press at NUMBERSUSA, CAPSWEB, JUDICIALWATCH, SAVEOURSTATE, GRASSFIRE, AMERICANPATROL, THE DARK SIDE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
Read more nefarious ingredients at http://www.redcounty.com/what-if-20-million-unlawful-immigrants-vacated-america#comment-11225
The primary beneficiary of the free health care should be the citizen of the country. I would agree to that however, the free health care must not only be experienced by the US citizens alone. I mean, the legal immigrants should be given equal treatment or, if not totally free, they should have avail discounts. What do you think? With regard to illegal aliens, I guess that could be the government’s responsibility.
I understand what you are saying, the system has been “engineered” and “limited” enforcement powers in the past so that businesses could take advantage of the good parts of illegal immigration (cheap labor) while giving away the farm when it comes to having take care of the human needs of immigrants. Greed prevails as it always does in our system of government.
As we approach and possibly exceed 50% taxation and people begin to see where all of their money is going, much of it will be paid on the debt that will be created just to put the currently proposed programs into place, I think you will end up with the “U.S. of California.” A U.S. state of affairs where taxpayers refuse to support a system that was not of their creation. That is where the true state of default occurs. In the same way that the State of California cannot meet its financial obligations, unless they are bailed out by the federal government, I predict the federal government will reach the same state over the next 10 to 20 years. It’s not going to be a great time for us because the loss of confidence in our system will be obliterated.
Talk about a tea party, people are walking away from the negative equity that they have in their homes today. Does anyone really think that the general populace will just accept 20 trillion or 40 trillion dollars of debt created for them by the government to keep the ridiculous programs that they are putting in place today? I think not. You can put that yoke on them, but if you think that they will buckle under their entire lives to pay the debt, I just don’t believe that it will happen. This “burden your grandchildren” arguement just doesn’t hold water for me. I think a great default will happen. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it will happen, mark my words.
I understand what you are saying with regard to the population explosion as well. The U.S. is not alone in that regard, it’s a global problem that will get much worse before it gets better. Again I am certain that this problem will work itself out. While no one wants to hear it, the planet will keep us in check. I don’t want to imagine with too much specificity how that will happen. becaise I would probably guess wrong, but it will happen. Our resources are finite and we as a species don’t think that we have to deal with finite bounds.
I agree with krisskross, not only the U.S citizens but also the legal immigrants should be given equal treatment. As regards to the illegal aliens, they deserve health care but not for free. I think, we should not totally discriminate them at all, right?
It’s incomprehensible to me how anyone can think that making the government responsible for the payment of health care doesn’t just fall on us. If the government is responsible that means that payment for a program, and anyone’s participation in it, is probably coming out of your wallet. Either payroll tax, sales tax, a new value added tax (VAT) or some new and ingenious tax that you haven’t imagined yet will get the money out of you to pay the freight.
I don’t think that’s a terrible proposal that has been added to the plan. Its actually a great idea as far as I can see. Covering illegal immigrants on health care. Why not? And it does not diminish the meaning of being an American citizen but rather the opposite. For me, that’s what made Americans. Americans have been a immigrants a long time ago. Its what made America. Embracing new people has always been American. And until now that what makes America. I think people have just forgotten about that and had just been frustrated of what’s happening right now and would tend to care about in what position they are in right now when in fact they are in the position of those illegal immigrants before. What becomes terrible in the proposal is that it does not cover first its own citizen that lives there now. Its okay to help other but at least have the decency to look first on your own, right?
Everything I expressed was in my opinion alone. No offense.
I think nakchura raises an interesting point about immigrants. I’ve not studied immigration in the US through the previous century, but I have heard anecdotes of people arriving in America without complete documentation – And I think of these people as having become true Americans. That’s not to suggest that those anecdotes are a parallel to all accounts of what’s happening today… Just an interesting point, I think.
I am in agreement with millionaireman. This is the correct middle path fair to all.
I don’t have a problem with immigrants, and I agree that our country has always supported them. There is, however, a significant difference between legal and illegal immigrants. All of those immigrants that Nakchura is talking about from Ireland, Italy, German, etc., etc. were legal. If you don’t draw a line between legal and illegal immigrants then you are basically inviting every person who can cross the border to come here for free coverage. Sorry, but that’s not something that I want to support. If there were some other Country in the world who would cover its illegal immigrants, I would like to know who that is so that I can take advantage of them. Are Americans supposed to be the only people who are so generous that they would bankrupt themselves to pay for the care of their illegal visitors?
I agree about the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. I’m surprised that the US is at this point in considering that extent of health care. I’m still getting the facts on it, but I wouldn’t have expected that.
That would be even more incentive to try to get into the country by any means, wouldn’t it?
I agree with you on that..illegal aliens on the country should be addressed first and of course give what is due to the American citizen..that is providing a good health care program.
Interesting. Nakchura’s point was well said that even I had to react. In my point of view, it does seem unfair for the government give free health care for illegal immigrants but hey, is it wrong? Like what Nachura said it isn’t. Besides, take it like this. If the government would help these illegal immigrants, will it have something in return? Yes. What? More people. People who would then be American and will work and live for it. And yes, good point by saying that immigrants made America.
takatenamano says: July 24, 2009 at 8:11 AM
“Interesting. Nakchura’s point was well said that even I had to react. In my point of view, it does seem unfair for…”
Hi there! You know what. I’ve just read Nakchura’s answers and yours. You also do made an interesting point out there. Come to think of it the more the people, the larger the potential for a country to become. But does it mean to say that we should really give illegal immigrants the privilege to be given free health care by the government? NO!
Oh, and I would just like to add. How about those poor citizens that are suffering from hunger and homelessness? Why not use the money for free health care for illegal immigrants to give a damn about them?
Do you think that illegal immigrants deserves that treatment? I mean, to get benefits what other got. Do you think the government have responsibility to them even they are just an illegal immigrants?
There is no responsiblity to provide care to illegal immigrants. Doesn’t “illegal” say it all. If they want to apply for citizenship, then I can see it. If you are working your way toward citizenship, during a reasonable time, sure . . it makes sense that you would cover those individuals. My concern is that some just want a free ride and with resources stretched to the max to provide care why should we be supporting those who have no interest in being citizens? Immigrants, immigrant applicants . . yes, illegal immigrants . . no!